Whenever Metallica takes a left-turn, looks at a route map that isn’t typical, and decides to go “that way,” I always get excited. They are a band that unequivocally takes risks; something which I firmly believe has (unwittingly) kept them at the top of the pile. When they casually told me that Iggy Pop was going to be the special guest in Mexico City, my fist pumped the air and I didn’t stop salivating over the bill for weeks. From the first moment I heard him as a 10-year-old in London, Iggy Pop spoke the same carefree, rebellious language I did. Whether ripping the fibers of your flesh apart with The Stooges or crafting moody masterpiece material like “Sister Midnight,” Iggy was up there with Lemmy in the narrowest bracket of free-spirited legends. Metallica and Iggy have, in my view, been buying aural bread from the same bakery for over three decades. Back in the early to mid-'80s Cliff Burton and Kirk Hammett would listen to The Stooges albums and talk Iggy, while back in Denmark even earlier, a curious young Dane had done the same. And whether intentional or simply because they are both fundamentally feral beasts, the sheer, raw power of each others music has always made it bizarre that this show hadn’t happened far sooner. 
 
   I made it a priority to work on getting Lars and Iggy to sit down for a So What!-style casual-yet-detailed chat whilst we were all in Mexico City. It was far easier than I anticipated. Within 20 seconds of mentioning the idea to Lars, he had responded with a roared, “Fuck yeah.” Soon afterward, Iggy’s manager Henry McGroggan cheerfully told us Iggy would be happy to do it, happy to do photos with Ross Halfin, and happy for us to film the proceedings. I can tell you, such things are not always as easy. That it was spoke volumes not just for Pop, but also for Lars (the two knew each other) as well as the respect that Pop holds for Metallica. 
 
   Once Lars and I sorted out how the conversation would go (I would “host” the conversation, throwing in questions where necessary but with Lars having full license to bring things where they needed to go), I knew it would be fun. I was genuinely excited and a touch nervous. I had interviewed Iggy once, back in 1988 for Kerrang! Magazine, an early feature I was proud of. To have the chance to host another interview involving Iggy was an enormous honor. And so it was that at 3:57 pm, we left Lars’ room to meet Iggy downstairs in a meeting room at the hotel at 4:00 pm (Iggy is stickler for punctuality – I don’t mind admitting that when Lars was still shirtless at 3:50 pm, my butterflies were working overtime). After the photos, we sat down to start. I opened proceedings by making sure Iggy was comfortable with the way things would happen and also inviting him to throw in whatever he wanted. What transpired was, in my opinion, some epic reading. I hope you agree. 
 
   Enjoy, 
 
   Steffan Chirazi 
 
   
 
   Ross Halfin 
 
  STEFFAN CHIRAZI: So to start things off, when you first heard this bill put forward, what were your initial thoughts on the other artist? 
 
  LARS ULRICH: Well, this came on my radar right after Iggy and I were hanging out in San Francisco last year, right? 
 
  IGGY POP: You came to the gig, yeah. 
 
  LU: I was very welcomed in and we ended up having dinner together. There was some wine to be had and there were lots of jolly spirits and good vibes. And within a couple of months of that, as these shows were coming together, we’d had a really deep relationship with these people here [in Mexico] for decades, and we wanted to really put something out there that was a statement. So they suggested that you come and join us and, I mean, I hadn’t even read the whole email before I just replied, “Fuck, yeah, bring it on.” It seemed like it would be such an opportunity to not only ride on the good energy from San Francisco but to just make a statement; any time Metallica can do something that’s a little unexpected and gets a chance to experience something that the four members of Metallica really support, we throw it out there, “All right, boys and girls out there, check this out.” So it was what we, Metallica, call a no brainer to have this pairing happen, absolutely. 
 
  SC: And for you Iggy, you hear the word Metallica and what do you think of playing with them? 
 
  IP: I thought, “Wow, yeah, okay.” It took that long, like one second, and it was because it’s a good band... I kinda understate these things. There are only a few. Most of ‘em are not so good. This is a good band, so I wondered if I could play with them, I felt like that was a really good place for me. And then also coincidentally I had just done a South American tour that I really wanted to do, and I wasn’t able to get Mexico in. Yo tenía casita aquí por quince años. I had a home here in Baja California for a long time; I made a lot of friends here. I speak a little Spanish poorly, you know. And it was just really important to me. And I’ve always loved DF [Distrito Federal, former Mexico City moniker – ED], I’ve always loved this town; it’s a really special place. So that was that. And then later it hit me, “I’m gonna open for Metallica.” So you know, “What’s gonna happen to me?” You know? Will I be eaten? Like, be eaten by a horde of cannibals. [Laughing] 
 
  LU: Now we’re gonna come for ya, ha ha! 
 
  IP: And yeah, right, right. Right, and these are my first shows of a season, and it was time to pick a couple new songs. "Gimme Danger" is new for this band, which that was sort of because of the film. But "I’m Sick of You" is a very ambitious, and also heavy in places, number that’s very in your face and I thought, “Yeah, let’s learn ‘I’m Sick of You,’ it’d be good for this.” And I had a ball learning it and I’m having a ball singing it for your fans. They enjoy the song. 
 
  LU: I know you did a run in Latin America in the fall. Have you done a lot of stuff here, over the decades? 
 
  IP: Not that much. I played here first in ’88; I just did São Paulo, Rio, and Buenos Aires for maybe 1,200 people a night and I loved it. And then I came back every few years, every so often but most always just Brazil and Argentina. 
 
  LU: The first time we were in Latin America was in ’89. On the end of the ...Justice thing, we did three shows in Rio. I think we managed to be there for a week without sleeping. 
 
  IP: Yeah, it is like that. That’s what it was like for me. 
 
  LU: I was like, “Whoa.” 
 
  IP: I was Mr. Good. I was really reformed at the time, and the promoter kept going, “Get to my room now! I’ve got the coke and the whores,” you know, and just laid it right out. He’s the promoter and I’m like, “Look, I’ve tried to turn over a new leaf. Haven’t you heard?” I was the scourge of whatever! On that tour I played the old Copacabana Club, which was falling apart, in Rio. And you know, there were these beach girls who would come and go, want you played and everything. 
 
  LU: They [the promoters] never did that to us. I just remember being out on the beach. I remember being out on the beach at dawn, daybreak, it’s like, “They’re gonna Frisbee out there,” and we would do like, you know, eight hours of just standing there fucking playing Frisbee. Then all of a sudden it’s like, “Oh, it’s 3:00 in the afternoon.” It seemed like it’d been fifteen minutes. 
 
  IP: Yeah, because it’s so nice!!! 
 
  LU: We would still be standing on that fucking beach right now if it wasn’t because somebody threw [the Frisbee] in the water and it washed out, but it was pretty crazy. 
 
  IP: I got my shoes stolen on that beach. Yeah, at Copa Beach... it was raw. The South American touring business was... 
 
  LU: Yeah, back then compared to now, whether you’re in Malaysia, in South Africa, or whether you’re in Dubai or whatever, you’re never more than twelve seconds from a Starbucks. Back then when you went to different countries... 
 
  IP: You felt like you were... 
 
  LU: You went to different cultures. 
 
  IP: Yes. 
 
  LU: You went to different places. It was like a whole different thing. And there was this sense of exploration, going into different universes and different aesthetics and it was really kinda crazy. But for us in ’89, the first time we were down here, instantly you could just tell the fans embraced you and it was a whole different vibe than in Europe and in the States. 
 
   
 
   Ross Halfin 
 
  SC: Let's talk about the first two shows down here that have happened. I’ve seen Metallica down here many times and every time it’s the best, I mean these people are fucking outrageous. They’re fucking out of their minds. And I noticed for you (Iggy) it seemed that they took to you like a duck to water. How did it feel? How did it feel here maybe versus anywhere else? Is this a special- 
 
  IP: How do I feel here in Mexico as vis-à-vis somewhere else? There’s a generosity here. They’re generous people, and it doesn’t matter if they’re young or old, you know? There’s also a certain kind of courtesy, they join in as an audience, and some of it at least for me felt enthusiastic and I think some of it was also courteous. I’m old enough to be their grandfather and all that, I’m not sure how many...some people knew my stuff and some people didn’t, but they were willing to join in and I just, I thought they were charming. They sorta charmed me and made me want to work harder. And I was like, “I want to please you,” you know? So that was sorta what was going through my mind. 
 
  SC: Yeah, when I saw that mic stand go flying the second night, that's a good sign, right? 
 
  IP: Yeah, that’s a good sign. 
 
  LU: I think it’s right what Iggy’s saying. They're very generous and these crowds here, they’re very comfortable expressing their emotion. And you know, when you play LA, when you play New York, it’s like half the people in the audience are musicians or wannabe musicians, and there’s some sort of like weird jealousy. There’s a little bit of jaded, there’s a little bit of “come out here and show us what you can do.” 
 
  IP: Yeah. Yeah. 
 
  LU: And then when you play down here, it’s like all that just dissipates and you’ve got x thousands of people who just want to be there, share, and it becomes this very inclusive type of thing with the audience, which doesn’t happen everywhere. You know, people express their love and appreciation for what you’re doing in very different ways all over this great planet, but there’s something about here, and as you go further south and get down to Colombia and to, you know, Ecuador and to Brazil and to Argentina, it’s always just this fucking outpouring of emotion and it really just carries you, man. We come out there on Wednesday, you know, conveniently forget about the altitude, go out there, and fucking three songs you can barely breathe. And you just feel like, it’s almost like when you [Iggy] stage dive or do your thing, they hold you up, they support you. 
 
  IP: Yeah. Yeah. 
 
  LU: And it’s a great feeling. I mean, it’s really fucking special here. 
 
  SC: I want to go back to one thing you said, Iggy, which really intrigued me. At the beginning of the conversation you said there aren’t very many good bands out there, and they’re a good band (meaning Metallica). What is a good band? I mean I think you would know, so tell us. 
 
  IP: Well, there should be a consistent approach. There should be attention to detail, where some work has gone into… where you can hear work has gone into the arrangements and into the actual structural foundations of the music, and then it should have, for me, an energy that is at the service of human beings in the same room as the band. Not like this is made to be a record of “this” that is then gonna get us into “this system” and we can go play "Jingle Balls" or whatever. You know what I’m saying? 
 
   The obvious way to say it would be it’s about the live show. It’s about what you can do live. I saw them [Metallica] play the Whiskey doing all Lemmy songs, you know, and it was really good. It sounded really bloody good. And then I saw them do [Bob] Seger at a ballroom called Roseland; it was wonderful, you know, big bands used to play there. The musicians union was upstairs until they closed it. And with the Seger, I thought that was really hard to do because you were in Manhattan, nobody really likes Bob Seger in Manhattan. So, everybody would just sort of stand there like this. And they played the Seger and they played it well, and then you played your own, came up for an encore and did your own shit. And without a largeness, and it really hit the people in the room, and you saw the people. So a band should swing, because if you’re in the room with other people and your band doesn’t swing, it’s embarrassing for them and it’s embarrassing for you. And everybody, you know? So that’s it. It’s a swinging band, and it’s got a lot of attention to detail, there’s a lot of work has gone into it. So that’s what I would say. 
 
   
 
  LU: Let me ask you, and I appreciate the nice words, I’m fascinated by music lineage and music history. So in your travels through the last three or four decades, what are some of the bands that have turned you on? What are some of the bands that have made an impact on you over the years? 
 
  IP: Whoa, whoa. You know, I was lucky enough that when I started out, I was the opening act at the Grand Ballroom in the ’60s, and I opened for Cream. The stage was this knee high, tiny… and a tiny dressing room for the opening act and a slightly less tiny [dressing room] for the stars. So I opened for them, I opened for The Who in that same ballroom. I saw Jimi Hendrix play in a converted bowling alley in Ann Arbor, Michigan with the suit, with the eyes, with Mitch Mitchell, Noel Redding. So it was really that era. I saw Van Morrison's Astral Weeks band at the Troubadour in LA, and Van had... you know, Van’s surly. So he has this one thing, his stage move. He’ll pick up a bar chair and wave it over his head like he’s gonna throw it at somebody, and that’s his big move, so he did that, you know. And that was another different kind of “good band.” They all looked like – you know, there’s a certain kinda English musician that they look a little ill? 
 
  LU: Like a diet of fish 'n' chips! 
 
  IP: Yeah, the French fry thing, you know? Like they’re very, very raggely-faced, and skin, and skinny… but they can play. 
 
   I saw Dylan play at a Masonic temple in Detroit with the Hawks, with Robbie Robertson on lead and that was really good. And Cream were interesting because they just, they “du-du-du” with the drums. It was really the drummer in that band more than the other two, he was incredible, his groove [for the record, Ginger Baker – ED]. And so it was mostly that whole era. I even saw Sly in that ballroom; Sly came through when he had Dance to the Music. And because it was a ballroom more for like teen psychedelic fans, it was only half full. Maybe 3-400 people came, and they did the whole thing with the trumpet and the big organ. “You might like to hear my organ.” O-o-oh, man... 
 
  LU: Back when it was outgoing and inclusive. 
 
  IP: You know, it sounded great. And then for me personally as an aside from that era of bands, the big, big thing for me that really changed my life was when James Brown got onto the white radio, and I started hearing that and you know, "Cold Sweat," "Outta Sight," and then later "Make it Funky," "Funky Drummer," "I Can’t Stand It," "There Was a Time." And what they were doing with the space suddenly becoming spare and articulated and all that – that really did it for me. I'm trying to think of anything in the sorta late ’70s. Not really. It sort of took a dive, although there would be bands like that that did some good things. MC5 were big for me too; they had their flaws but they were really like, you know, wow. You know, I mean these guys were going for it. 
 
  LU: They were on fire? 
 
  IP: Yeah, they were on fire! I grudgingly must admit that Thin Lizzy had some things going for ‘em. 
 
  LU: Phil Lynott was incredible, yeah. 
 
  IP: I don’t know about the guitar twins and everything but he [Lynott] was something else. 
 
  LU: But again, also that drummer Brian Downey- 
 
  IP: Very fine. 
 
  LU: Could really swing- 
 
  IP: Yeah. 
 
  LU: Really move that shit along. 
 
  IP: You know, I played a gig with Slade. 
 
  LU: Wow, what, back in like the ’73 to ’75? 
 
  IP: Yeah, and I’m told that their roadie chased me around the hotel with an axe [laughing]. I don’t know if it’s true or not. But it was J. Geils Band, Slade, and T. 
 
  LU: Was that in England or was it in the States? 
 
  IP: The US. And they could play. You know, they could really, really play. 
 
  LU: Noddy Holder had an almost, like a – when I go back and listen to some of those songs there’s almost like a Lennon-esque quality to his songwriting. 
 
  IP: Yeah, right, that voice. 
 
  LU: Yeah. And there was a kind of a poetic undertone. Because they often get dumped in with like The Sweet, and you know, some of those guys which were maybe not quite as deep, but Noddy Holder really had substance. 
 
  IP: They were pretty harsh. They could bang it, you know? So there was that, and I was one bill above KISS on their first gig. They were third bill, Stooges were second bill, and it was Blue Oyster Cult who were like an estimable, intelligent, sort of precursors of Queensrÿche, right, kind of in a way, that approach, you know? But KISS came out and, down comes – I mean they’re getting paid 50 bucks, right? And down comes this enormous swirling sign that says KISS in the little spinning chrome lights or whatever, they’re on these heels, and I was like, I don’t know about this, man. But there they were, you know. There they were. 
 
   
 
   Ross Halfin 
 
  SC: I'm interested to discuss a shared collaborator, and obviously Iggy has had many, Metallica have had a few themselves, but the one you both share is Lou Reed. With you Iggy it was of course a very deep relationship, and for you Lars there was obviously the Lulu project. I’m interested if each of you could discuss how you met Lou, and how you each found the creative process with him. 
 
  IP: Well, Lou came to The Stooges gig at Max’s Kansas City in 1973. 
 
  LU: Was that the first time you met him? 
 
  IP: No, I met him before that, but I got to know him better then. I met him through Main Man, who were the managers of David Bowie. They were about to sign me to a management deal, and they were working with Lou as producers. And they convinced Lou that, “We’ve got this new artist… we don’t really like his music. He needs some good songs!” So the idea was Lou was gonna sell me some songs, you know? But if a Lou song is any good, Lou is gonna do it, right? That’s how I met him, we were sitting in a room and he was playing me songs, and we got drunk on his acoustic guitar. 
 
   And then he came to a Stooges gig and I would bump into him in New York at different times, but I saw him play for the first time with the Mach 2 Velvet Underground in a room just about exactly this size. And there were just a few of us seated on banquettes upstairs in the front, not even the back, of Max’s Kansas City. It had a little cocktail table, had a little banquette, and it was him and the Yule Brothers, and they did a great set of quiet – it was not that loud but it was rock and it was forceful and they did "Ocean," "Pale Blue Eyes," "New Age," and some stuff like that, and it was really wow. And then I saw him again, I hung out with him a little. They played Santa Monica Civic with the Rock ‘N’ Roll Animal Tour, you know. Yeah, I saw that. I'd bump into him in New York over the years, but we actually fronted the same band at a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, or stadium concert in Cleveland. What happened was the tickets were going slow because the performers were all geezers. So they wanted to convince this young band that was popular at the time: Soul Asylum. So Soul Asylum was hot at the time, and my manager had already tried to get me on. They said, “No, we don’t want any Iggy Pop. No, this is good, nice rock for good people,” you know? And then they [Soul Asylum] said, “Well, we want to back up Lou Reed and Iggy Pop.” So he kinda got me in the door and I went on before Lou, and they had decreed, “Okay, you can have Iggy Pop but no Iggy Pop songs!” 
 
  LU: It’s off limits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
 
  IP: So at the rehearsal, they said you can do a Doors song. So we’re in the rehearsal, and they said, “We’ll start with The Doors so we’ll just segue to your- 
 
  LU: Throw one in when no one’s looking. 
 
  IP: Right. So I did "Back Door Man" and "I Want to Be Your Dog" with him and then he did "Sweet Jane," and I remember he had Laurie [Anderson] with him at the concert. He was very protective of her; he’s a very sensitive person. So he was sorta standing there with Laurie and I just said, “Hey, Laurie.” I’d gone to her show – she had a very nice Broadway show in the Neil Simon Theater – and I just go to things when I’m interested. So then that kinda broke the ice, you know. And we went out to dinner after, as people do, and that was the last time I saw him. I think, for a while, he was a little bit pissed that I didn’t do any of his songs. So he would grumble about me, but they reissued Raw Power and he wrote a real nice blurb for it about the music and the vocals. 
 
   The first time I heard the Velvets, that first Banana record, I was in Ann Arbor and there was gonna be a house party on campus. And I went there and I was about twenty, nineteen or twenty, trying to get into being a professional. I was a professional with no money. And I heard, this was a slightly older crowd on these various campus drugs and they were kind of beatnik-y, and I heard this music. And I said, “That is just horrible. It’s just, it’s not, it doesn’t even sound professional.” You know, it sounds, ouch! And then, the next time I heard it three days later, then I got it, said, “Oh, fuck!” And that was that great, great album, you know, with “Venus.” 
 
  LU: So much of it was about the attitude, right? And that whole thing about the East Coast versus the West Coast and we don’t do hippie trippy and we don’t do all that peace and love and flowers and all that shit... 
 
  IP: No, we don’t do that. 
 
  SC: And Lars, talk a little bit about Metallica working with Lou. Maybe there’s some stuff that you could share with Iggy about working with him... 
 
  IP: I enjoyed that record you did with him. 
 
  LU: Yeah, so did we. 
 
  IP: A lot of nice riffs on that and he’s just telling his stories. 
 
  LU: It was the 25th anniversary of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and Jann Wenner [Rolling Stone editor and publisher] threw this big celebration at Madison Square Garden, and his idea was to have a few bands anchor some segments, so he had Springsteen anchor a segment with some different people, and U2 anchor a segment, and he asked us to anchor a segment, which we were very flattered and pretty humbled by. We ended up doing a few songs with Ray Davies, a couple songs with Ozzy Osbourne, and then Lou. Lou showed up at rehearsal, this is about two days before, and we’re in a nice comfortable New York rehearsal space, and Lou walks in literally with dark clouds, and thunder and lightning over his head. He was pissed off! All “This is not right,” and “What the fuck?” and all this type of stuff. And we were like, “Well, should we do this, should we do this? Should we do a medley?” He said, “I don’t fucking do medleys.” 
 
  IP: [Grinning] Oh, hahahahahahaha. 
 
  LU: You know, the gauntlet’s now thrown down. And then Lou and I went off in the corner of the room and had a nice 10-15 minute chat about a few things, and then we sort of found some common threads. From there on he was fine. I think he had kind of a defense mechanism that was always ‘on’ to keep people at a distance, and you had to sort of break through that. And once you broke through that, then it was cool. But it was like a test. We ended up playing two or three songs, and it was fucking magic. And when we did it at Madison Square Garden in front of not just the audience but also the peers, you know, all the other bands, he was so into it. As we walked out of the bowels of Madison Square Garden and walked our separate ways, he was like, “We should make a record together one day. Come on. You know, let’s do something!” It was like, “Lou, just fucking call us. We’re easy to find.” And then lo and behold, a month or two later he called. He had this whole idea, these lyrics, this play and this whole German thing and Lulu. 
 
   For us, what was so interesting was that when we write, everything’s about the music first. You know, the riffs, the swing, the arrangements, all that kinda stuff. And then with Hetfield, the last things are the lyrics and the vocals, I wouldn’t call them an afterthought but it’s the last thing, the dressing. So Lou sent us ten sets of lyrics. And it’s like, “Write music to these lyrics,” and we had never done that in 30 years! That was such a challenge. It was so cool to be out of our element at that level. Then James and I sat there for a week or two and tried to come up with music that would fit our interpretation of the moods of his lyrics. We sent some stuff to him, and he called up and was like, “Fuck, this is insane.” And then we went on this journey together for like the next six months. We made the record and we went and played television shows all over Europe, it was a whole thing. 
 
  IP: Oh, I didn’t know that. I heard the record. 
 
  LU: Yeah, yeah…we never performed any concerts but we did TV and we did promotion stuff. We did Jools Holland, all kinds of stuff. And then Metallica played some concerts at The Fillmore [in San Francisco] for a celebration, I think it was our 30th anniversary, and he came out and sang three or four of those songs with us. That was the last time I saw him, unfortunately. I didn’t know he was as sick as he was. Him, Laurie and Hal [Willner – producer, friend, collaborator] kept it kinda quiet. So it really threw me when he passed. 
 
  IP: That sort of thing goes in abrupt stages. I’ve seen it with others. 
 
  LU: But it was hard for him because he was so proud of that record. He felt we had some sort of spiritual connection with him, and he kept talking about that, how we were finally the right band to back him up, how he’d been looking for decades for somebody with the power and so on. Then the record came out, and as you may know, some of the critics were not particularly… 
 
  IP: And I know all about it. 
 
  LU: …particularly kind to this record. 
 
  IP: [Chuckling] Gotta love ‘em! 
 
  LU: Yeah. And he was, I mean, he was really hurt. 
 
  IP: Sure. Of course he would be. 
 
  LU: We’re pretty thick-skinned. We’ve been through ups and downs for years, and if we like something we’d done and we enjoy the experience, that’s what matters to us. But I think he was really saddened by the response to [Lulu] and I felt…it was weird. The roles changed at the end where I became almost more maternal to him, and had to like sort of comfort him through this very difficult month when the record came out and it just got fucking slammed, you know. 
 
  IP: Well, what happens is that the piece that he wrote belongs in a theater element. And then what happens with these people is that once they’ve decided that they’re gonna judge whatever release you do as a piece of rock and roll business product, then that’s that. You know, so it wasn’t a good piece of rock and roll business product, because it wasn’t a piece of that at all. And there’s no chorus. You know, it’s great! There’s no damn chorus! And he told the truth in the lyrics. They are some nasty lyrics. They’re really like “ow” you know, like Street Hassle [1978 Reed solo album – ED]. There’s parts on Street Hassle that are pretty, you know, “(won’t) you drag a bitch out in the street and throw her out there because nobody will notice at a certain hour of the day?” And he was trying to be a true artist. This is the thing. But to him, rock and roll should be an absolutely open vehicle for different things you want to do and say. 
 
   
 
   Ross Halfin 
 
  LU: Let me ask…when I meet a lot of guys that are older, that have been around since the ’60s and ’70s, a lot of them carry a bit of a grudge on their shoulders about being fucked over by the business, and really being taken for a ride by the managers and the whole fucking thing. When you and I met and were hanging nine months ago, and now hanging out here in the last couple days, I feel you have this incredibly warm, open, friendly, engaging personality that’s really quite different than most of the guys I’ve met from the ’60s and ’70s. Were you just lucky in that you didn’t get fucked over at the same level, or was it more your nature in terms of your personality to be a little bit more open and embracing? 
 
  IP: What happened was I got fucked over at the level that was typical of the time. The way it goes is the guys in the ’50s to the early ’60s, particularly if they were black or uneducated or both, got totally fucked over. Man, for instance, I would go to a Bo Diddley show anytime I knew he was playing, to hear him play. And I was backstage at one of his shows and there was a line of people with his albums for him to sign. And the first thing he would do, he’d	Fim